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  Monday, Sep 15, 2003 Report News | Archive | Top  
Thoughts on LANs
- Posted 10:53 AM By Krogue
EMail News to a Friend  Printer Friendly Version    28 Comments | Add 
I had an extraordinary experience this weekend. I participated at a LAN with 59 other individuals for 17 hours and NOT ONE GAME OF COUNTERSTRIKE WAS PLAYED. BF 1942 was played, Desert Combat was played, BF 1982 was played, Savage was played (a game to which I was introduced this weekend, and man is it awesome), HALO was played, Red Faction was played, Urban Terror was played, Warcraft 3 was played, .... you get the idea. A lot of other games were played, and still no Counter-Strike.

So, how is it that this was possible in an area of the world that has a total population (Iowa City/Cedar Rapids) that is less than half the size of Kansas City proper (not including the Metro area), but when a LAN is hosted in KC, it is said it can't be successful without playing Counter-Strike. Is it because the average age at the LAN I went to was probably in the early to mid 20's and not in the teens? Is it because the people up here in Iowa appreciate all types of games and play them for fun, and not always for the smack-talk, uber-pwnage aspect of competition?

Some facts ... Counter-Strike was released in its first public beta in early 1999. That was 4+ years ago. Since that time over 480 major PC game release titles have come out, and probably 10 times that number in small developer titles. So, somewhere out there is probably around 5,000 other titles, many of them with better graphics, better multiplayer action, and better gameplay. Just in the past couple of years we have seen Return to Castle Wolfenstein (and Enemy Territory), Medal of Honor, Unreal Tournament 2003, Rainbow Six: Raven Shield, Battlefield 1942 (and all of its Mods), and tons of others. But obviously, these releases were completely missed by the Counter-Strike community.

Well, I have ranted long enough, so I will move on for now. However, if any of you want to come up to Iowa City sometime for a LAN let me know. We will play anything you want as long as it was made in this decade.
28 Comments Posted

#1 by Kagato on Monday, Sep 15 at 3:28 PM 
Last decade? Awww man, no PacMan?
#2 by KaiserRoll on Tuesday, Sep 16 at 9:54 AM I'm just guessing that since CS has been running so long at the lan that it kind of crowded most of the people who played other games out. Now that the focus has moved, The CS players are the ones who are being metaphorically pushed out, leaving the core of people who play lots of differnt games. Just a theory
#3 by atr.nolimit on Tuesday, Sep 16 at 10:26 PM not really, counter-strike is and always will be one of the most popular games to be played. given around the world, they have these so called tournaments with major cash prizes, so i doubt counter-strike is getting pushed to the side. all in all, i think for once, mwgl should think about the people attending, instead of thinking about themselves. now, that said, i'll be enjoying myself at the 31st tournament in olathe next month, seeing how that is the only place left in kansas city, to play cs at a competetive level.
#4 by BurnPilot on Tuesday, Sep 16 at 11:58 PM "All in all, I think for once, mwgl should think about the people attending, instead of thinking about themselves." Thank you for reinforcing the EXACT reason I refuse to cater to CS players like yourself anymore. Are you aware of how many people have stopped coming to our events because the focus was shifted to CS for so long? Do you realized exactly how many people left because they felt we stopped recognizing them as people who also deserved attention as well? No. You claim MwGL should not think about themselves, when in fact we have never thought about ourselves. If we did we would be trying to make a profit. No, you want MwGL to cater just to the CS players like yourself and ignore all the other gamers like we did in the last few years. I'm sorry but I refuse to do this. I don't care if you think one lan with CS as a tourney every 6 months is not enough just because you can't play any other games. You can try and make us sound like the bad guys but it's your own greed that's causing the problems. We used to have lots of non-CSers that came to our lan and enjoyed playing a wide assortment of games. A lot of them are all gone now because we payed too much attention to what YOU wanted. It took so long for it to occur to me but when it finally did I emailed some people that used to come to our lans, but stopped, and they confirmed my thoughts. These were people that used to come to our lans because they simply liked to game and have fun and knew we ran quality lans. Give us one good reason why we should cater to you guys, who leave the instant we try something new, whine at the slightest technical difficulties, and only come to our lans because we have a CS tournament rather than because they are hosted by us. I doubt you can. If you can't handle us not having CS tournaments at every event then that's your problem. As I said when we started trying new stuff, CS wasn't going away completely, we were just trying to give our other attendees something to enjoy. I'm sorry you can't handle not getting all the attention.
#5 by Krogue on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 9:25 AM Damn Right. My problem has never been with the fact that people still enjoy playing CS, or that CS is played competitively around the world with major money tournaments. I think that is great. I think it is also great that the same can be said for Q3, Starcraft, and a small handful of other games that can be played professionally by people that want to make a living doing so. But, that is not what we started hosting LANs for. We hosted LANs so people oculd get together and try new stuff out, so people could play whatever - whenever. Unfortunately, we really started going during the high point of CS fever (2000-2001) and got caught up in it. Then for a while, that was our only focus, and a lot of people (as Burn mentioned), including me, found it annoying that CS was all there was at our gatherings, and stopped coming. I think it is great ATR.Nolimit, that you want to compete competitively at CS. Have fun, make some money if you can ... but, don't you sometimes just want to get together with friends and play games? Not organized, not for prizes .... just for fun? That is what the MwGL was supposed to be when Rick, Brian and I started it. Unfortunately, it has lost that focus. It is sad that I have to go to LANs hosted by other people in order to regain that fun game-playing environment. Anyway, I know that I rant, a lot, about this CS at the MwGL thing, but dammit, as the co-founder of the group, I feel I have a right to express my regret that we don't just play games for fun anymore. Sometimes, I wish we were back at the School of Economics or the Church, or for that matter the Autumn Place Clubhouse. At least, back then I remember having fun.
#6 by g0dsp33d on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 9:30 AM BurnPilot, your a moron man, and same with lots of other people. Didn't MWGL use to serve the people. Give the gamers what they want? Not anymore. It's all about "WHAT I WANT TO PLAY.!" You guys are worse than a bunch of girls whining. Why do you think KC Beatdown, KCGXtreme have all booked tourney's and you guys can't even book an event no more? I use to know over half the people that came. You guys gave it a whirl for no CS, and look, your attendence falls to shit. Then you bitch about people not coming? People love CS. Just like Quake 2, it was played forever, extremly addicticing game. I know people in MWGL that say put CS back in but I won't mention names. I imagine once when HalfLife 2 comes out, it will be the next big thing. Counter- STrike is already loosing its numbers now but it doesn't mean eliminate from your events if people want to play it (go figure). {quote}Give us one good reason why we should cater to you guys, who leave the instant we try something new, whine at the slightest technical difficulties, and only come to our lans because we have a CS tournament rather than because they are hosted by us. I doubt you can. {/quote} Pull your head out your own ass. The people pay money for our events and you carter to them. Otherwise, they won't pay money and won't come. They pay money, we shoudl support them. The networking portion does fall on us, if we say we are going to have internet, you should have internet. If a router fucks up, they have every right to bitch at you to get it fixed. They pay money for us to provide them gamming. Peace.... Eric Hilden reachme @ g0dsp33d@linuxmail.org
#7 by g0dsp33d on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 11:46 AM Also there is no other game like Counter-Strike. It is fast paced, fun, and good way to relive stress. Also, most gamers don't have money to spend $40 for a game every month let alone pay for our events. Also, the reason you have older people at your events Krouge because us young'ns Early 20's to teens have no money to play all those games, we can't afford to buy the new and latest game always.
#8 by Kagato on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 12:16 PM Wow, it's always nice to read such insightful comments from people like g0dsp33d. Shame you apparently missed grade school and the ability to actually READ ENGLISH. Perhaps you'd like to go back and actually read instead of skimming through. The reason attendance dropped when one event didn't hold a CS event was because so many of the old regulars just stopped coming because they tired of the same-'ol CS being the first and foremost tournie event on the schedule. Many even stopped visiting the page so it kind of makes it hard to get the word out to non-CS players that something BESIDES CS is actually being played at an event. As for KCBD being a booked tourney, I imagine you speak from exprience on that. Oh wait, guess not. Why? Because they have an 18yo age limit to keep whining ass little bitches from coming. What's even funnier, is the last few events, there's actually been a small crowd of CS players showing up (like 4 or 5 people). It's rather quite humorous to hear all the "booing" and "weak" comments from the crowd when it gets announced. I imagine KCGXtreme has a full crowd just because they are definately geared to the CS persuasion and with MwGL trying to cut back, it's their only other alternative to get their CS fix. As for teens not having money to buy/play new games. Funny, last time I checked when I was that age, there was this wonderful new invention called a JOB where you actually get paid money for doing work which you can then turn around to use towards the purchase of things like games. I'll admit, the event should cater to the gamers and make sure everything is done to ensure their enjoyment, but does that mean that they have to cater to one exact segment day in and day out? Unfortunatley, with the age limit in place on KCBD, there's few choices the younger gaming crowd have for LAN parties in the local area. I'd like to think that MwGL could provide that for them without the worry that only one game will be played all night long at every event.
#9 by g0dsp33d on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 1:20 PM Last time I checked, gas is $1.47 a gallon, most people have girlfriends or other things to do; like hanging out with friends and go to movies, etc. And average pay rate of $6.50 an hour, and working 20-30 hours a week, doesn't leave a very big pay check. So, I would like you to refrase your comment as something along the lines of this. "My name is Kagato, I have no life and play computer games all day." Yes I am an asshole. Thank you every much. Apparently (use to be the only teen member) you guys have no idea of the people that come. I know lots of people at Longview, Blue River, Truman High, etc. So lets sit back, and read why people are bitching at you. Makes you guys look even worse when you have members bitching at the people that come. Of course they aren't going to come back. Just as atr.nolimit and KaiserRoll were suggesting their ideas. Sorry for not being an English Major, or having nothing to do all day, as I don't always have time to read what I wrote. Also I would like to point out lots of people Still play DIABLO 2 non-stop. Like phill use to. But no one bitched about that. We had people coming just to play diablo 2 and they were happy. Send your reguards to ehilden@mwgl.org
#10 by g0dsp33d on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 1:37 PM Also forgot to add. Most insurance is around $1000 or more every 6 months. Sorry we aren't rich like you sitting on terrabit storage and gigahert speeds. CS is simple to run on not a huass machine.
#11 by atr.nolimit on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 4:00 PM people that live with their moms basement all their lives have a lot of money on their hands not pointing anyone out or anything
#12 by Krogue on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 5:04 PM Okay, I guess my original intention of this post has become muddied by the waters of confusion. My point was not that no CS should ever be offered at an MwGL event, nor was my point that people that enjoy CS shouldn't come to MwGL events to play CS. My point was that we shouldn't have to host a competitive CS tourney just to get gamers to come. My query goes back to "Why, when we host a LITE event, which specifically entails no competitive - 'pay to play' tournaments, does nobody show up?" My issue was with the fact that nobody wants to just play games anymore. I don't care if 80 people all sign up for a LITE event, and then they all choose to play CS. If so, hey more power to them. But, the beauty of having a LAN with no scheduled tournaments, is that people can play what they want, when they want. I am just amazed that an open LAN offering, where up to 120 people can come together to just have fun (for around $.50 an hour) fails to attract mobs of people. As I noted in my post, the LAN I went to last weekend had no "tournaments" sponsored by the hosting group, but as always happens, natural tournaments popped up throughout the LAN. People were playing WC3-DoA games where winners of different games would take on each other, until only one reigned supreme. It wasn't for a cash prize or the neatest loot, it was just for fun. That is my point. That is my question. Does the Kansas City area no longer have a need or want for a LAN offering that allows people to just have fun and play?
#13 by Anthos on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 6:37 PM It's a matter of those people not paying attention to MwGL anymore. There is a want for that LAN offering. The problem is the only people that knew about it were the people that would rather forego fun in the pursuit of competitive playing of CS. Not that that is a bad thing. I wish them all the luck in the world in those endeavors. However, if nobody pays attention and nobody knows...then who's going to come? And nolimit...KaiserRoll was, I believe, referring to MwGL events; not to the oline gaming world as a whole.
#14 by BurnPilot on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 6:46 PM No it doesn't Krogue, because that would benefit everyone and people are too greedy for that now. As was mentioned multiple times we never said we were completely doing a way with CS. I, myself, have gone out of my way to say this multiple times. Despite this many of the CS only players have complained and made comments about our lans since we have tried refocusing. This is what lead to my comments that in my opinion we can do without you. If you want to come and game, I have no problem with a little CS here and there and neither does the rest of MwGL. If it gets so bad that it chases off other gamers though, like it did, then I DO have a problem with it. I don't see why we should cater 4 events a year to one game when there are so many others out there. As for the claim that people don't have money to buy new games, think about this. I'm a full time college student and I work many hours ever week. I pay my own rent, car payment, car insurance, renters insurance, utilities, etc. Yet I still find money to buy games here and there by either selling old stuff or doing odd jobs, it's not that hard all you have to do is work for it. It's not that hard.
#15 by BurnPilot on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 6:51 PM Oh yeah and Godspeed. I would shut up while you are ahead. Every time you open your mouth you only make yourself come off like more of an idiot. I personally would have kicked you from MwGL when you were banned from servers for using exploits and hacks while wearing the MwGL tag.
#16 by Anthos on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 7:07 PM But the problem with that, Burn (earning money) is the work part :) It's much easier to sit and complain about something, than it is to get up and do something about it.
#17 by DarkPhan on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 8:10 PM "Also there is no other game like Counter-Strike. It is fast paced, fun, and good way to relive stress." This is the same closed mindedness that I have seen from most CS players, the refusal that there are other games that have been released in the past 4 years as krouge mentioned. "Also, most gamers don't have money to spend $40 for a game every month let alone pay for our events." I would like to see some stats on what you are claiming here. Define most, show statistics that show that "most gamers dont have money to spend $40 for a game every month" The problem with "kids" these days is they expect everything to be handed to them, everything to be catered to them, after all, they are the center of the universe and know everything. I see this in my kids (they range from 11 years old to 3 months)
#18 by endurance on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 10:08 PM Well... don't complain about how people aren't coming to your lans beacuase we don't like the games you play. Is it possible that CS has a majority in KC? "oh snap...". If you want to have other games and not a counter-strike tournament, thats fine. The people that signed up are the people that wanted to play. The cs players however wanted to play there game... and did so at other lans. So when you say cs is a small crowd... then why did it drop from around 100 people to 25?. Its just a fact.. im not going to pay 20 dollars to lan and play another game i don't like. CS is my game... and i went to the lan that catored to that game. Its what game you play.. that decides what "lan" you go to. if its a BF tournament lan.. then cs players probably won't go. Oh, btw... money prizes would be nice if u have another cs tournament. ;) CS was MWGL. CS brought people to MWGL. Take CS away.. and whata get.. 25 people that don't know a good game when they see it.
#19 by Brett on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 10:32 PM first off, commenting and trying to act like you know what someone does all day is fucking lame and has nothing to do with the thread, ok nolimit and g0dsp33d. And whats funny is the cs players whining about no tournys, dont get me wrong i recently picked up cs and am competing aswell. But, when i played quake 3 there wasn't official tournies all the time but that didn't mean the 7-8 of us didnt show up and put money in to have our own tournament, last time i checked MWGL didn't give a shit if you ran your own tournament.
#20 by Fear_Factor on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 11:33 PM first off, commenting and trying to act like you know what someone money situation is fucking lame , ok nolimit and DarkPhan. i live at home i know i dont have the money to buy fucking video games every month or have a top of the line computer. shit i dont even own a computer; its my dads, and its only an 850. i have other priorities like my cars, gas, insurance, cell phone, loan payment,supplies for my buisness, college, and blah blah blah...and yes burn we are supposed to cater to the attendess cause if they arent happy then they wont come. its call customer service. every buisness and organization has to do it or else they go under. those are the facts of life.people are entitled to there opinions. i mean damn u were talking shit on an attendee who pays money to come to OUR events. im sure that makes him want to come back. you piss one person off and u piss many off because when you piss off that person he tells his friends and they tell thier friends and then u have a shit ton of people not coming anymore.
#21 by Squirre1 on Wednesday, Sep 17 at 11:52 PM This is is just funny... Why don't you guys move this to the forums.. If you are able to post here then you can post in the forums... I would appreciate that more then getting somewhat off the topic of the original news posting... Thanks...
#22 by DarkPhan on Thursday, Sep 18 at 12:11 AM fear, i do not think i was trying to act like i know what someones money situation is or was... i do believe that it was someone else that claimed that "most gamers" do not have the money to buy games every month. I was simply stating that I would like to see statistics, etc for that claim. To me, that claim was just "made up on the spot" and is not based on any facts etc. If one is going to make a statement like that, they should probably have documentation to back up their claims. I made no claims one way or another about how much money people have. Besides, I am probably the last person that people should bitch about not having money to, I have a wife, 6 kids, a dog, 2 car payments, etc.
#23 by g0dsp33d on Thursday, Sep 18 at 12:12 AM This can be contiued on this thread. http://www.mwgl.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3277#post3277
#24 by BurnPilot on Thursday, Sep 18 at 11:50 AM Oh, and one thing. For Endurance and other people who wonder about the question stated by Krogue wondering where everyone was. There are many non-cs people who used to attend (and still attend every so often) our lans. I believe his question was directed at them.
#25 by d00d on Thursday, Sep 18 at 12:56 PM I have been to 5 lans.....2 lites and 3 fulls and i noticed at the lans with ct tourneys that the attendance was significantly higher. Burn, whether you want to believe it or not, there is a good chance that cs is the NO.1 choice of fps of people between the age of 15-22. You lose cs, you lose customers bottom line
#26 by Krogue on Thursday, Sep 18 at 2:22 PM Dood, atr.nolimit, endurance, and anyone else interested in this discussion ... g0dsp33d started a forum thread at MWJISGL to discuss this further. We are interested in everyone's input on this matter, so please take a second to read through all the post, and then let us know what you think. Thank You.
#27 by g0dsp33d on Thursday, Sep 18 at 9:58 PM Next post can be added to MWGL>Off Topic>NEXT THREAD MWJISGL POST YOUR THOUGHTS.
#28 by Pat on Thursday, Oct 2 at 1:37 PM I like how the CS players defense is "It will make more people attend MWGL" Yay. If MWGL is thinking of themselves, they would be playing whatever brings the most people. Unpleasent (Hate to stereotype, but CS players are some of the most immature and annoying gamers around) or not.

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