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Posted by dbh on 04-24-2002 05:49 PM:

CS1.4 Comments

Well whaddya think? I have a very set opinion on this one... I've been watching it since it's first betas, but I want other unaffected opinions before I go with mine Most of you have probably read the changes list, and have given it a try by now. What are your thoughts?

-dbh


Posted by Curve on 04-24-2002 10:34 PM:

Plainly stated, I really like it.

The jumping does not affect me one bit. I think it adds a nice little play of realism which adds an element of fun. I want someone to stand up right now and jump in one place and then around your house, we'll see how tired you get .

The new features ranging from the little things such as the radar showing more things to the bigger things such as the new spectator modes have made me a very happy camper.

I've been playing CS since day 1, and I think every release just adds more. I'm still a faithful CSer

__________________
Sweet sweet ass


Posted by Anthos on 04-25-2002 01:36 AM:

GUI menus

For any of the other lazy bastards that didn't read the changelist....if you have gui menus disabled in your config, then you'll want to change from:

setinfo "vgui_menus" "0"

to

setinfo "_vgui_menus" "0"

__________________


Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.




Nobody wins in a quick-draw contest.


Posted by dbh on 04-25-2002 06:44 AM:

Good call Anthos - gui menus = tehsuq

-dbh


Posted by BurnPilot on 04-25-2002 12:28 PM:

Ok, after officially playing it a bit I can say that the jumping in 1.4 does indeed suck. I agree with limiting the jumping so people can't hop around the whole map, but they took it way too far. They should have either set a stamina meter like in dod or limited it to something like 3 jumps in sequence which would be more realistic than what they did. Also the stealth aspect sucks now as well. I haven't timed it yet but I'm pretty sure walking is hardly faster than moving while ducked (if it is faster then it's not by much). The only good thing about this is that I can hear people coming a mile away now because no one wants to walk because it's so god dang slow. All the other new features are great in my opinion, but they really screwed it up when it comes to these 2 features. This is of course my opinion after playing it for about 2 hours. I will play it a little more just to make sure, but don't think my opinion will change much.

__________________
"One of the major tactical blunders when involved in any conflict is to have supply lines dependent on crossing bridges. That's just asking for trouble."


Posted by BurnPilot on 04-25-2002 03:09 PM:

After playing 1.4 more I have decided that I am probably out of cs for good. The way they did jumping and stealth has completely ruined the dynamic of the game in my opinion, plus the fact that there are already hacks out as I watched 2 hackers in the time I played today alone. The ability to dodge is completely gone so if you are outnumbered you are pretty much screwed. You are also screwed if you join in the middle of a round with only a pistol becuase you can't dodge and the the weapons now seem more accurate, I killed 5 people in one frigging round with a mac-10 and I never use that gun. Anyways, unless Valve fixes these issues you will more than likely never see me play cs again, they really screwed up the game.

__________________
"One of the major tactical blunders when involved in any conflict is to have supply lines dependent on crossing bridges. That's just asking for trouble."


Posted by dbh on 04-25-2002 04:19 PM:

I am entirely in agreement with Burn at this point... my post to
-=SoF=- :

Yep. All good opinions. The weapons HAVE been changed, though, If you don't notice them, I'm not too surprised. You know me, though. I'm a jumping, Deagle fool. I could take anyone with anyone weapon on with a Deagle, and usually come out ahead. I can't hit crap with the DE anymore-- whether I'm moving, ducking, jump-->duck firing, ANYTHING. As for your distance firing with 7 bullets in the same place, Glue, try again. I think you're mistaken. I sat CLOSE (5 paces), and fired in the same place, and all 7 shots in a diff location. Not one hit the same place.

You all seem to agree on the hs count upgrade. I think this is directly affected by their changes to the weapons. Someone last night said they "n00bified" CS. I think they were right on the money. Anyone can get a headshot, even if their aim sucks. The m4's accuracy wasn't increased, the game just recieved a headshot hitbox upgrade. Sucks bigtime if you ask me.

I think my upset about this entire thing is just the feel of the game. It's not Counter-Strike anymore. I mean, when you patch a game, you should FIX bugs. FIX hacks. Change things like the spectator proxy (which yes, I thought was cool months ago when I saw it. Everyone last night on the servers I played on kept repeating the same thought, "the only cool thing about 1.4 is when you're dead."). DO NOT change the feel of the game! If you're going to do that, release a NEW game. Now this feels like Ghost Recon. If you move and fire, your aim sucks. If you use a pistol, don't duck and fire, your aim sucks (but to me, it still sucks). It feels like every weapon has been dumbed down so that anyone can use it, regardless of how great their aim is. Even the AWP. CS 1.3 took a lot of skill to play (and a lot of BS), but now it feels like the BS has been upped, and it takes even less skill to play. Maybe that's just me, and yes, maybe that's just a couple hours playing the final of 1.4-- but at the moment, I'm very upset about this release, and I know a ton of others who are. I'm sure many of you think I'm REALLY mad about the jumping change-- but in reality, I'm okay with it now (save the practical side of it I mentioned earlier). I knew it was coming months ago in the beta, and got used to it then. Since I've gone back to jumping a lot, but I can get used to not jumping again. I think getting used to what seem to be crappy weapons and crappy headshots will be more difficult.

Anyway, I'm glad some of you really enjoy it. Hopefully after a good week or so of playing it (next week for me, as this one is shot), I'll be in the same position. Have fun guys!

-dbh

I haven't had any time to play since that post... and won't until Sunday/Saturday. I am hoping more time will give me more time to adjust... but I hate the changes they made, and am lost as to why some of them were made (jumping, okay sure... but WHY the way they did? As Burn points out, it's ridiculous!).


Posted by Krogue on 04-26-2002 09:08 AM:

I don't find myself in this position often,but I couldn't disagree with Burn more. I love 1.4.

Now, I am not a CS junkie, nor am I extremely talented at it. So, maybe when you say, you feel they "noobified" it, that may be somewhat true. However, I love the new tenor and feel of the game. No more freakin morons hopping continously, like the Trix Rabbit on PCP. I played a little the last two nights (and over my lunch break at work - shhhhhh !!!), and I didn't see the problems with walking or with ducking.

In addition, I found that people played in a more realistical manner. Instead of everyone running off half-cocked in their own directions at the beginning, people stayed together. This was supposed to be a team-based shooter, remember. People stayed grouped up, and acted as a team. In all the games I played this was the successful method for winning. People who were still trying to be solo-heros were getting wiped out. Real life says you can't out jump or out duck a AK-47 or M-16's spray of bullets. But, up until now, CS said you could.

Also, as pointed out. The new Voice-Over-Net and HLTV Overview modes kick ass. And, yeah it does make it cooler for those of us who die early and often.

I really like 1.4. Does it mean I will play this game more than I did? Probably a little, but not any more than I would have in the long run. So, it may not have been entirely wise of Valve to alienate their core consituency so much. But, it does mean a better gaming experience for me. And, isn't that what really matters in the long run?


Posted by BurnPilot on 04-26-2002 10:01 AM:

The entire problem is that everyone keeps making the arguement that the jumping and the other changes make the game more realistic, while in all truth it doesn't. I'm sorry to point this out to anyone that thinks it's true but I can jump more than once withoug losing speed. Look at the triple jump, the athelete doesn't lose speed hardly at all until the 3rd jump. Now figure that counter terrorism units are in pretty good shape and you will see my point, losing speed after one jump or a drop of 4 feet is stupid. I completely agree with the fact that you shouldn't be able to hop around the level, but they screwed up how they "fixed" it. Along with that they took away a skill, bunny-hopping, that some skilled players took a while to develop. (please note I'm referring to bunny-hoping, where you jump quietly at a decent rate of speed, versus strafe jumping, they are different) Bunny hopping wasn't all that hard and could be learned by anyone who tried in a couple hours, but all the skilled players realized it was the way to go because of the sound factor versus the speed of travel. Now look at the gun accuracy. In 1.3 it wasn't that bad as it took some skill to learn each guns firing characteristics and know how fast to fire it for best accuracy and damage. Now people run around with every gun and just spray at the upper body and get headshots, not exactly realistic. All in all CS was not supposed to be a realistic game, if it was people would die in only a couple shots vs emptying a whole clip into them sometimes. CS was a fast paced team game with real world weapons. Now the firing is no where near accurate in my mind and the game is ungodly slow. Also on the point of the no jumping affecting teamwork, this might be partially true. The problem lies in the fact that if you are playing a serious match and get down a couple guys you have no hope really. I dont' like this as I loved to watch someone pull of some spectacular moves to bring their team back. This is nearly impossible now. Once again CS is not supposed to be realistic, I'll play a Tom Clancy game for that. This is how they destroyed the "dynamic" of the game in my opinion by making it more "noobified" and claiming they are doing it in the name of realism when they are just doing it in the name of money.

__________________
"One of the major tactical blunders when involved in any conflict is to have supply lines dependent on crossing bridges. That's just asking for trouble."


Posted by Anthos on 04-26-2002 10:16 AM:

I totally agree. It doesn't even play like CS anymore. It's really damn slow. I see what dbh means about the deagle. It was a heavy favorite of mine as well, now it's worth about it's weight in lead. It seems to do less damage now, plus it seems slower on the quick pistol switch than other pistols. I don't think anyone ever played CS for the "realism". If you say you do/did, you're full of crap. CS is nowhere near realistic. Like Burn said, you don't take 10 bullets and keep running around like you weren't hurt at all. CS was a fast paced, skill based game. Now it's been slowed down and tweaked to reward spray-n-pray tactics. Please explain why during practice with my clan (skilled team with organized strategies) I can go like 30-5, then playing against a server full of n00bs, I get killed by headshot after headshot. The jumping, as Burn said, was totally over done. Yeah, I'm all for making it more "realistic", but when I run and jump a few feet in the air, I don't come to a screeching halt when I land....I keep jumping. Burn mentioned triple jump, but take a look at hurdles, as well. Not quite jumping, exactly, but more to my point of how they keep moving forward after they come back down to the ground. Go ahead, go run and jump and keep running when you land. See how much you slow down. No, clumsiness does not count. Personally, I loved the fact that you could have no money and use a pistol to get a few kills, pick up someones gun and win the round. Now, if you've got only a pistol, you're pretty much screwed. Sure, you might get one kill, but if there's more than one person there, it's not gonna do you much good. I think they are trying to appeal more and more to getting new players into the game, rather then making the game better. It's all about the money to them. I think the term "n00bified" is the perfect description to what they've done to what used to be an awesome game.

__________________


Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.




Nobody wins in a quick-draw contest.


Posted by Hollywood on 04-26-2002 10:28 AM:

Talking so....

so since CS is lame now, like i said it was a long time ago, does this mean you guys are switching to Q3 now?!


Posted by Anthos on 04-26-2002 01:01 PM:

Screenshot of the Day at csnation.


Since so many are leaving Counter-Strike, this SAS would like to give a wave good-bye. thanks, Bi0|-|aZarD.

__________________


Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.




Nobody wins in a quick-draw contest.


Posted by BurnPilot on 04-26-2002 01:30 PM:

Actually comparing jumping and physical movement in track is perfect for any game, especially cs. In fact, bunny hopping is indeed a possibility, let me explain. During my 4 years of running track we had an exercise every year where we would attempt to "bound" around the entire track to increase endurance and explosion. For those who haven't heard of bounding what it basically is is a real life bunny hop. It is slower than running and faster than a walk, plus you make no where near the noise you would when running. Sure doing it around the entire track took some strength an no one hardly ever made it more than 300 meters without having to stop but it is possible, think at the end of my junior year I made it almost the full track with only a half second stop half way though. Anyway, it's really hard to describe bounding, but describing it as a real life bunny-hop is the best way. I guess you could describe it as doing a lay-up style(with a little more emphasis on height) jump then landing on the opposite foot only to jump right back off that foot the same way. I'm not sure the distance runners did it much but they probably did it a couple times so Anthos should be able to second me on this.

To answer Wingfoot, no, no q3 for me I will probably go Jedi Knight 2 then UT 2003 if anything.

__________________
"One of the major tactical blunders when involved in any conflict is to have supply lines dependent on crossing bridges. That's just asking for trouble."


Posted by Curve on 04-26-2002 02:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BurnPilot
Actually comparing jumping and physical movement in track is perfect for any game, especially cs. In fact, bunny hopping is indeed a possibility, let me explain. During my 4 years of running track we had an exercise every year where we would attempt to "bound" around the entire track to increase endurance and explosion.


Counter-Strike can't be compared to track running. The CTs aren't running in a circle with short shorts on. Athough your argument has some merit, try throwing on a CT outfit with Kevlar and carrying a weapon then bound.

__________________
Sweet sweet ass


Posted by Curve on 04-26-2002 02:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Anthos
I don't think anyone ever played CS for the "realism". If you say you do/did, you're full of crap. CS is nowhere near realistic.


I agree with you to an extent. Although CS wasn't nearly as realistic as say Rainbow Six was, it still had real elements to it. This new jumping thing is a new real element. It's just somethign to adapt to, and I'm adapting rather fine as I never did much bunny hopping other then to get to a place faster. I had to stop that and so be it. Jumping while you are shooting is just plain stupid unless it's DM type games like quake and there is no sense of realism at all . And no Jingy, I'm not full of crap.

__________________
Sweet sweet ass


Posted by BurnPilot on 04-26-2002 03:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Curve


Counter-Strike can't be compared to track running. The CTs aren't running in a circle with short shorts on. Athough your argument has some merit, try throwing on a CT outfit with Kevlar and carrying a weapon then bound.



Yes there are differences between cs and track but I was attempting to show the physical capabilities of a human being to prove it is possible, which it is. Any member of a special forces unit or counter terrorism unit should be at least in as good of shape as a high school athelete if not better and while they wouldn't be able to bound around a full track with all their gear on they should be able to do it for some time. In my time playing cs I never saw someone jump around the entire map, they would maybe do it for a bit then stop and listen, then start up again. In many ways the example was to show how bad they did the jumping. The only way someone would lose speed like that would be if they weighed something like 700 pounds and never worked out. Heck I believe a sumo wrestler could jump once without losing momentum like you do in cs. Hey if you bring a full ct outfit with everything to the next MwGL I'll try it and we can video tape it and send our findings to Valve since I believe I could do it for at least a little while (and note that I am nowhere near in the shape I was in my senior year). So by you saying track can't be compared to cs I would have to disagree as the individual physical demands put on a person could be compared through endurance and other things. Any physical activity could be used to show the peak of human levels which should be allowed in games. That is unless you want to make realistic people models with beer guts, love handles and all If this was true I doubt over half the people on the planet would be able to preform as your character does in CS.

__________________
"One of the major tactical blunders when involved in any conflict is to have supply lines dependent on crossing bridges. That's just asking for trouble."


Posted by Krogue on 04-26-2002 05:08 PM:

I don't buy this Track and Field nonsense. Have you ever seen Private Ryan, or George S. Patton, bunny-hopping, or even long or triple jumping across a battlefield. I don't think so. I have watched TLC and the Discovery Cahnnel for years and have never seen war footage or battlefield pictures of people bounding or hopping or jumping continuously across anything.

And, how has it slowed down the gameplay? Because now, you have to work within a team framework, and can't go gallavanting around on your own, trying to be the solo hero? In a team game, there should be an element of teamwork. Everyone I am hearing from is upset, because it has strengthened the teamplay component and destroyed their little personal "Deagle-destruction" worlds of personal glory.

If that is the world of personal triumph you need to live in, I agree with Curve's recommendation that you switch to a Single-Player oriented FPS like Quake 3, or UT.


Posted by jag on 04-26-2002 05:28 PM:

I would just like to say a comment on the whole update on 1.4 for CS. Maybe people don't like it, but if they don't, they shouldn't be playing the game. Counter-Strike is aimed towards realism, am I right? So they made it more realistic, they are accomplishing what they want to do. No, you can't get away with as much as you used to, but you couldn't get away with it in real-life anyway. So all I can say to people that don't like the changes, life with them and stop complaining, or just don't play the game anymore, because this is 1.4 and it's out. There is nothing you can do about it, so just live with it, or don't play.


Posted by BurnPilot on 04-26-2002 06:09 PM:

It hasn't really strengthened the teamplay aspect though, it's always been there if you could get with people that worked together. That was why I liked the clan enviroment vs the pub enviroment. All it did was screw the team that gets down first. For example in clan matches the pistol round will be even more important now becuase when the second round comes up the team that won will have the money to buy automatics while the team that lost won't. In all the games I played of 1.4 the other day not once did the team that lost the pistol round win the 2nd round. I went and tried it out on good servers too, where teamwork is the norm. Also I'm not saying someone would go hoping around a battlefield. I'm saying that from a physical standpoint it is just as likely as not and that the jumping modification that Valve did only serves to slow down the game and get it away from what it has always been. Basically the track examples are just examples of what humans are capable of from a physical standpoint. When it comes down to it, in the situation that CS simulates the odds of someone actually running or jumping at all unless they were under fire are very slim. If you were actually in these situations, it would be much more like the Rainbow 6 series ( it would be covert and tactical) and herein lies my point. CS was never meant to be truly realistic and the game play changes are simply meant to increase Valves profit margin on a title they aren't really investing any more money on. By taking away the things that formerly used to require skill, it get's more new players into the game that will hopefully bring Valve more money.

And on my final point for this post, it has nothing to do with being a "solo hero". It has to do with when you are covering a location with a TEAMMATE that you feel you won't get slaughtered if overwhelmed by a larger force. With the old play style I had no problem if 1 or 2 teammates and I were defending a spot on the 2nd round and we lost the pistol round and a full team rushed us. I always thought we could hold them off and delay them long enough for the rest of my TEAM to get into position. Now I have no such confidence and it is not because of lack of skills either its because of the way the gameplay has changed. You can ask anyone in 9-Ball and they will say I was one of the most team oriented guys in the clan. Same probably goes for Jing too with i_N_i so implying that we should be playing sp just because we don't like the changes isn't a valid conclusion. Teamwork has always been there and has always been to overtake any fool who played fully as an individual. What I have seen in playing 1.4 isn't any teamwork at all either, it's simply mob mentality. Basically if we get enough guns and bullets flying through the air we win the encounter and move onto the next one.

__________________
"One of the major tactical blunders when involved in any conflict is to have supply lines dependent on crossing bridges. That's just asking for trouble."


Posted by Anthos on 04-26-2002 10:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Curve


Counter-Strike can't be compared to track running. The CTs aren't running in a circle with short shorts on. Athough your argument has some merit, try throwing on a CT outfit with Kevlar and carrying a weapon then bound.

Counter-Strike can't really be compared to anything, because it's not anywhere near realistic. There are a few "realistic elements", but that's about it. I would assume that a CT in Kevlar and carrying weapons would be in pretty good shape anyway. No, they probably wouldn't be able to do something like that all throughout the map, but that's what a stamina meter is for. Seriously, I don't get so tired that I have to stop for 1/2 a second after I jump to catch my breath and reaccelerate. The track and field stuff is not meant to point out that people would be doing these events on a battle field. It was simply meant to illustrate the possibilities of human capability.

__________________


Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.




Nobody wins in a quick-draw contest.


Posted by Anthos on 04-26-2002 10:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jag
I would just like to say a comment on the whole update on 1.4 for CS. Maybe people don't like it, but if they don't, they shouldn't be playing the game. Counter-Strike is aimed towards realism, am I right?
No, I don't think you're right at all. Most of the people I have played with don't play CS because it's "realistic". They play it because it's fast, fun, and based a lot on team cooperation. The best players you will ever see are those that are able to work with their teammates to accomplish their goals, not run around playing DM style.
quote:
So they made it more realistic, they are accomplishing what they want to do. No, you can't get away with as much as you used to, but you couldn't get away with it in real-life anyway. So all I can say to people that don't like the changes, life with them and stop complaining, or just don't play the game anymore, because this is 1.4 and it's out. There is nothing you can do about it, so just live with it, or don't play.
And if that's all the argument you can make (if you don't like it, don't play and stop complaining) please don't post anymore. I don't need someone just coming in here and complaining about people exercising their right to express an opinion. I still play 1.4, unlike Burn, because I enjoy playing with my clan mates and the regulars on our server. It's not so much the game itself, but simply the fact that they are my team and I like playing with them.

__________________


Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.




Nobody wins in a quick-draw contest.


Posted by Anthos on 04-26-2002 10:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Krogue
And, how has it slowed down the gameplay? Because now, you have to work within a team framework, and can't go gallavanting around on your own, trying to be the solo hero? In a team game, there should be an element of teamwork. Everyone I am hearing from is upset, because it has strengthened the teamplay component and destroyed their little personal "Deagle-destruction" worlds of personal glory.

If that is the world of personal triumph you need to live in, I agree with Curve's recommendation that you switch to a Single-Player oriented FPS like Quake 3, or UT.

Personal glory has nothing to do with it. Burn and I have always been team oriented. We work with our team to accomplish the goals set out for the current map. "Deagle-destruction" was simply a good means to help out my TEAM with accomplishing those goals. Communication and TEAM effort has always been the basis of my play. The element of teamwork, which you say has been "introduced" in 1.4 has always been there. Sure, there have been many people that have ignored it, but I don't know of any that have been posting here. So, no, everyone you are hearing from is not upset because it has "strengthened the teamplay component". I don't think it has done anything for the teamplay. Before 1.4, as Burn pointed out, it was possible for 1 person to delay entrance to a bombsite, or a key entrance to a hostage map, until the rest of his TEAM could get there. Now, it's mainly based on extensive luck, which normally will not go his way. They've taken away much of the skill base of the game and oriented it more towards the "fresh meat", if you will. They probably figure that if it's easier for them to get kills, they will stick around and play it longer, and get their friends to spend money on buying CS, making the company more money. Personally, I don't think people should come in and make assumptions (incorrectly, I might add) about why people are upset. Just because someone uses a deagle more heavily then another weapon, does not mean they are playing CS just for the personal glory. I really don't care whether I live or die, as long as I can do the best for helping my team win. Yes, I try to kill as many people as possible, but if it's not necessary for my team to win, then I don't go out of my way to do it. It has always been about teamplay for me, which is probably one of the reasons I've been at the top of the stats pages on servers I've regularly played on. Not that I'm the best at killing people, or have the best Kill to Death ratio, or survive the most rounds, or any of that shit. It's because I play the game as I think that it was truly intended to be played. A team game with set objectives to fulfill.

__________________


Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.




Nobody wins in a quick-draw contest.


Posted by dbh on 04-27-2002 12:11 PM:

I definitely agree with Anthos/BurnPilot's views on comparing bounding to CS. It's VERY possible, and the CS team's decision to change the jumping thus is ridiculous. Particularly, as mentioned before, when there are so many other systems that have proven successful (stamina, three jumps then slow down, etc.). Why they did this is beyond me. I'd love to know who they chose to be on their official beta team-- they'd have to be complete idiots to allow this to pass as the next version of Counter-Strike.

As for realism, that is *not* was CS is, period. Again, as stated, if you want that, you should be playing the Rainbow Six series (which I cannot stand). That is so geared towards realism, that I can't possibly have a moment's fun. Which brings me to the ultimate point I'm trying to make:

CS1.4 is NOT Counter-Strike. It doesn't feel the same, and it doesn't play the same. It's an entirely new game. Why is this bad? Because the community that played it for years before now hates it. When I say community, I'm not talking about the casual gamers who hop on a CS server once or twice a week for pub play, I'm talking about the clan-gamers who play hours a day and know every element of the game like the back of their hand. X3, DoP, MFA-- all the better clans out there with significant tournament claims ALL do what has been previously described as "bunny-hopping." Sure, doing it repeatedly is not realistic, but it took skill and it was part of the game. A part of the game that all the greats had mastered. Taking away this element strips them of what they've worked for: it's the same thing as requiring basketball players to play without their shoes and with a medicine ball. It's NOT THE SAME GAME. Particularly for leagues, like CAL, who are in mid-season, making the switch from 1.3 --> 1.4 is incredibly insane. It's like saying, "okay, now you're all going to switch over to Soldiers of Fortune 2 instead."

Needless to say, I'm upset with this release. I have always taken the changes they've made in previous betas/finals in stride and adjusted-- but this is too much. Whoever commented about spraying-and-praying is 100% correct. Everyone in SoF (50+ people) agrees with me on this: anyone can get a headshot without any skill. No longer need you burst and aim for the neck/upper chest-- now you can just aim in someone's general direction, auto, and decimate. It almost feels like we're back to Beta4. I haven't given up yet-- but this sure is discouraging.

-dbh

PS: Wingfoot: No, not Q3-- even though I play it in tournaments frequently-- but SoF2. Having been an official MP beta tester, I've had extra time to become aquainted with this title, and I can't wait for Raven's final release. It's by far the closest title I've played to Counter-Strike. It's closer atm to CS1.3 than 1.4 is :P


Posted by Krogue on 04-27-2002 04:16 PM:

Wink Krogue is always right !!!!!!!

I would like to point out that since you guys are wrong, and I am right. CS 1.4 is much better than previous versions.

I don't think you can find a better reason than that.


Posted by dbh on 04-27-2002 04:58 PM:

Yeah well... but... damn.

-dbh


Posted by Curve on 04-27-2002 09:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Anthos
Counter-Strike can't really be compared to anything, because it's not anywhere near realistic. There are a few "realistic elements", but that's about it. I would assume that a CT in Kevlar and carrying weapons would be in pretty good shape anyway. No, they probably wouldn't be able to do something like that all throughout the map, but that's what a stamina meter is for. Seriously, I don't get so tired that I have to stop for 1/2 a second after I jump to catch my breath and reaccelerate. The track and field stuff is not meant to point out that people would be doing these events on a battle field. It was simply meant to illustrate the possibilities of human capability.


I disagree that a stamina bar might have been a better solution to this. What I hated most of all I guess was people jumping around when they were attacking people. I think that's why a stamina bar wouldn't work out because then these people would still be able to do this.

Yes they made the accuracy even worse for when people jump, however jumping around while you are attacking someone just isn't right IMO.

Yes it might have changed the way you play counter-strike, it did me, but like I keep saying I adjusted, and that's all that needs to happen, adjust and come up with better skills. Jing by the look of it last night you adjusted mighty well, so stop the bitchin

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Sweet sweet ass


Posted by Anthos on 04-28-2002 02:36 AM:

Actually, if the stamina bar were implemented correctly, it would stop people from doing that. Jumping multiple times would cause the stamina bar to go down, decreasing the length, height, etc., of the jump. Also, running would decrease this, making it necessary to conserve your stamina for firefights if you wanted to do the jumping, and even that would be limited. Jumping while attacking should be less accurate. With that, I agree. I also agree that it should take some adjusting. However, that's not the point. I'm not saying that 1.4 isn't a fun game, or that people should stop playing it because of the changes they made. Obviously, that's up to the individual. Personally, I still have fun playing with you guys. That's why I play, to have fun. To say that I am completely happy with 1.4 would be false; however, I would rather play 1.3, then play 1.4. Personally, I find most of the changes in 1.4 to make it less enjoyable than 1.3. It is a lot cooler being dead, though .

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Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.




Nobody wins in a quick-draw contest.


Posted by Fyre on 04-28-2002 03:27 AM:

Heres my view on things, The MP5 is virtually the same, strafe weapon, jump weapon, all around gun, the people at valve took every single gun, and took the stats from the mp5, mashed it into every gun (except scout/awp) and said "Look! we Improved!". Then they melded HLTV with the Spectator view, and said "A New way to see things while you're dead!" when it already existed. The jumping was the whole thing that they changed, and im (used to be) an avid bunny hopper, its a good tactic, and now i suck at CS because it was taken out, as for the AUG, its stats were pumped, it gets mad headshots at the cost of very few bullets, the USP(My Fav. Pistol) Sucks ass now. i cant hit a danged thing without wasting a few clips first. The awp cant aim worth crap anymore, i had to shoot 4 times while crouching not moving with 15 ping before i hit someone standing still, the scout is the same, except you cant move and shoot any more, which was my favorite tactic, now you gotta be an awp-hoe with the scout to even hit something, they really screwed up cs 1.4, Sure, it promotes teamwork, but if 1.3 was actually getting more people to play the game, and more people learning teamwork, isnt that better than having half your customers quit and hate the game and the other half be old players that dont want to quit the game because its all they can do, or new people that dont know what the hell theyre doing. The new maps are Team DM oriented, where if you and 3 others try to hold the fort while 5 come in with guns blaring, (this happened) i tried burst firing, while i got 1, my whole team got obliterated in less than 10 seconds, Now this is not what i call teamwork, when you all rush in and anihilate the people who are making "mini's" and are trying to do teamwork. Valve screwed 1.4 up, but i'll still play CS only because of its fun value and the friends i have that play it.

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Posted by Squirre1 on 04-28-2002 09:29 AM:

Bink, Bink....

Oh Shit....

There is my 2 cents.... ;P


Posted by Anthos on 04-28-2002 09:33 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Squirre1
Bink, Bink....

Oh Shit....

There is my 2 cents.... ;P

ROFL...as always, Squirre1 makes one helluva contribution.

__________________


Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.




Nobody wins in a quick-draw contest.


Posted by MOMO on 04-28-2002 10:31 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Squirre1

Bink, Bink....

Oh Shit....

There is my 2 cents.... ;P


I dunno, man. My pennies always go clink clink. Those some type of foreign currency?

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Posted by dbh on 04-28-2002 11:46 AM:

Such a strong argument. Notice how he expertly incorporates the use of capital letters and punctuation? I'm not sure if I can come up with anything against him in that one...

-dbh


Posted by SpankyPop on 05-01-2002 08:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Curve
Plainly stated, I really like it.

The jumping does not affect me one bit. I think it adds a nice little play of realism which adds an element of fun. I want someone to stand up right now and jump in one place and then around your house, we'll see how tired you get .
I've been playing CS since day 1, and I think every release just adds more. I'm still a faithful CSer


Yea maybe you curve but the rest of us are effected quite greatly by the jumping. I use jump as both an offense and a defensive tactic and while i agree that something needed to be done about bunny-hopping (well actually I really couldn't care less about it, only about 1/100 of cs'ers know how to do it, and the rest are just pissed because they can't figure it out - but ill be politically correct here and admit that it was unrealistic) I think they took it too far. one lil hop and your slowed down to like the speed you have when you gots the awp busted out. i dunno about you curvie but i can hop more than once and keep on running.
Other than that, i love it lots. the bomb planting thing needed to be done to keep bombs from being planted all over the place.
the spectator thingies are absoultly neat. hrm, what else. I too have been playing since beta one and I too believe that every new release is freaking orgasmic. but they took the jumping too far with this one. mad: Oh, and mods don't go crazy and ban me for being an ass to curve, I get to diss him, Iv'e known him for a few years now. moreover, nice forums yall's got here!


Posted by SpankyPop on 05-01-2002 08:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BurnPilot
Actually comparing jumping and physical movement in track is perfect for any game, especially cs. In fact, bunny hopping is indeed a possibility, let me explain. During my 4 years of running track we had an exercise every year where we would attempt to "bound" around the entire track to increase endurance and explosion. For those who haven't heard of bounding what it basically is is a real life bunny hop. It is slower than running and faster than a walk, plus you make no where near the noise you would when running. Sure doing it around the entire track took some strength an no one hardly ever made it more than 300 meters without having to stop but it is possible, think at the end of my junior year I made it almost the full track with only a half second stop half way though. Anyway, it's really hard to describe bounding, but describing it as a real life bunny-hop is the best way. I guess you could describe it as doing a lay-up style(with a little more emphasis on height) jump then landing on the opposite foot only to jump right back off that foot the same way. I'm not sure the distance runners did it much but they probably did it a couple times so Anthos should be able to second me on this.

To answer Wingfoot, no, no q3 for me I will probably go Jedi Knight 2 then UT 2003 if anything.




Yea and no normal human could do this right? without lots and lots of hard, anarobic and areobic exercie right? the kinda exercise that you might expect then you join the seals? maybe?


Posted by BurnPilot on 05-01-2002 09:40 PM:

Don't worry Spanky we won't ban you, especially when you pretty much agree with us. And everyone loves to mess with Curve so we won't hold that against you either Seriously though, have you guys ever watched the Navy Seal special they run on cable? (I can't remember the channel, but it's one of the informative ones) Anyway they show their training and how demanding it is. I'm sure that after what they are put through they could probably jump serveral times without losing speed, while in full gear at that.

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Posted by Fyre on 05-02-2002 08:43 PM:

I donno man, i could go for a good banning right now spanky! lol, jk. I've been playing CS 1.4 addictively becuase cs has that quality, but i have learned a good few of new tactics that kick butt. They're basically 1.0 tactics melded with 1.3, basically, you crouch walk while shooting, strafe/hop to the side and crouch back the opposite way, i usually get random headshots, and if i dont, i kill em soon enough just by their crappy aim, I usually get 24% or more accuracy(Found this out by a server mod(Statsme 2.1) its really cool. But ive grown to like 1.4, but 1.0 is still the best version of CS they ever released.(Oh, and the spec. kix butt too )



Fyre|MwGL|

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Posted by Curve on 05-08-2002 12:26 PM:

I'm so banning Spanky.

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Sweet sweet ass


Posted by Fyre on 05-08-2002 03:18 PM:

lol, how mean of you.

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Posted by Squirre1 on 06-28-2002 02:47 PM:

Now that 1.5 is out, what do you think of it...


Posted by Anthos on 06-28-2002 04:13 PM:

Same as 1.4.

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Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.




Nobody wins in a quick-draw contest.


Posted by Fyre on 06-28-2002 09:41 PM:

nothing new, but i've been addict of beta 4, with the leet models, and bunny hopping, strafe jumping, all the good things, lol, i play 1.5 with my friends every now and then, but we need more beta 4 servers!

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