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Posted by mekk on 10-29-2002 11:28 AM:

The Counter-Strike Tournament

I am not just completely talking off my ass here. I have ran many tournaments in the past. I have been to the CPL in Dallas and admined the biggest Counter-Strike tournament in the USA. I have also ran smaller 100 person Counter-Strike tournaments in the St. Louis area for Warfactory/Cyberfest/XXXLowdown and other minor groups. I'm trying to point out suggestions and problems just like you asked for your news post (Anthos). So before you read this please understand what I'm trying to do.

Obviously the time was a disaster. You can't possible expect a tournament to be ran at 5:00am in the morning. I ran a tournament in St. Louis that went to 3:00am and people where tired and left. For it to start at that time is just insane. If you really want to run it at that time you have to release a schedule for teams to get sleep and know how to plan it out. When the counter-strike tournament started and though out the whole tournament I only thought about one thing: sleep. I could barely make my shots.

I always release exactly what I'm going to do before the tournament. An exact map cycle, exact time frame, and settings. I think you should have released a map cycle for all the tournaments. If not a map cycle then exactly what maps will be played.

I feel that HLGuard is not necessary. No one is going to use a wall hack or aim bot on a LAN there are too many people walking around. If you really want to stop people that have advantages put a config checker on. Just send one admin to walk around and check screens to make sure.

I was really hoping for some HLTV to be projected. I was going to join RCS's HLTV however the player limit was 10/10. If you raise that and set sv_proxies 1 you can put HLTV in the matches. You can also record demos on them.

I have some suggestions for your servers. This will make it a lot easier on your admins. First off you can release the RCON password to the team captains and let them restart their servers when they are ready. This will save you and them time. Another suggestion is to remove mapcycle.txt and put no maxrounds or time limit. This way the map will never load you can just change it when you are ready to switch. I saw you using HLSW that is the best program in the world and it is what the CPL uses to control their servers. This also gives you a chance to watch the teams to make sure they are legit. This works for all games not just CS.

Your tournament program was excellent. What is the name of it and where can I download?

I hate when people bash my hard work after a LAN. Don't take this as bashing, it isn't. I know you guys put a lot of effort into this LAN party. I really enjoyed the building it was in, the chairs where very comfortable, and the food was handled extremely well. If there is some form of organization on the tournament times expect me to come to every MWGL in the future. To be honest I drove the 4 hours just for the CS tournament. So I was very upset when the tournament was at 5:00am and I had no sleep. I know just about everyone that played in the CS tournament was upset. Just give a little more effort towards the CS tournament and I will be happy.

Posted by BurnPilot on 10-29-2002 12:02 PM:

Disclaimer: This is not directed at you Mekk. I am greatful that you seemed to take a mature approach to your thoughts about the tournament rather than just blurting out your issues during the event. This is more of an overall response to things I have heard about the running of the CS tourney at the event. Plus I am very tired.

The biggest problem with the CS tournaments is knowing exactly how many teams there will actually be and from that figuring the time required. If we had an exact number before the lan it would be easier, but people are always adding and dropping out so we have no idea. While the time for the tournament was very bad it was viewed as a necessity due to everyone whining about the round count. When did we finally finish? Think it was around noon or 1pm when the final match was finally done. If we had left it to our original plan of about 8am it would not have finished before we had to leave. Because of this the early start time was due to giving the participants what they wanted. We are currently looking at how things are scheduled so that hopefully this won't be a problem.

In addition to the number of teams effecting the number of rounds it also decides the maps played. As I have stated before we try not to duplicate maps. As a result of us not knowing exactly how many teams there will be most times we simply say, "Be prepared to play all standard de_ maps that are included in CS" If we had a way for teams to form before hand, this would have to include throw together teams for those without teams, we could be more exact. Unfortunately we usually don't have a definite count of teams until right before the event. This is why definite list of maps is not released until right before the events. Plus if you are a good team then you should be able to handle pretty much any map thrown at you with at least a decent level of competitence.

Another problem is that Anthos was essentially the only person running the entire tournament. Quite frankly the tournament is probably too large to be run by a single individual. Sure there were a couple people helping here and there but he carried the majority of the workload for this one. To add to this fact you have to consider the amount of people that think they know how to run a tournament "better" than us and keep coming up and offering their "input" while things are going on. This is a major distraction and leads to things running slower. This is not directed at you as you actually seem to have experience but I can't say how many times people came up and said something to the effect of "why don't we do it this way" in the MIDDLE OF THE FRIGGING TOURNAMENT. Quite frankly this is why I didn't really help run the CS tourney this time. 90% of the CS community is immature people who think they "know" better than everyone else. If you have a suggestion for the tourney, then make it in the forums before the event. We will try and take them into account. Don't come up and bother the members running the tourney with how you things shoule be done during it, because they probably have enough on their plate as it is. There is always the chance of little technical issues coming (ping spikes etc) especially when we are getting used to a new location.

Another note to ensure tournaments run smoothly in the future. Report your dang scores when you are done. Anthos asked me at least twice to go and find out scores because people hadn't reported them, so we could enter the information and move on. If the tournament is going to run smoothly and as fast as possible time wise, this is necessary along with being in the server in a timely manner.

So to sum it all up here's the things you can do to help with the tournaments:

1) Make suggestions before the events in the forums, but once the event comes leave the running of the tournaments to the Members in charge.

2) Report to the servers in a timely manner so that the matches can start. Once they are over report the scores to the official immediately so we can move onto the next round.

3) Don't complain about something during the tournament. Save it until after the event and post your thoughts and suggestions on how to fix it in the forums. Post them in a mature way, because if you act like a little spoiled kid we will ignore you. We will then look into it and try to solve the problem.

"One of the major tactical blunders when involved in any conflict is to have supply lines dependent on crossing bridges. That's just asking for trouble."

Posted by [SLJ]1337Dude on 10-29-2002 04:54 PM:

Well, we all know that fLat. did the best.

I was fLat.1337...

Final score, (in wins-losses) 1-35.

It was great fun however.

Posted by mekk on 10-30-2002 02:05 PM:

Burnpilot your real close to having a great CS tournament. You have a great building and nice staff that is willing to work. You would only need to change a few things and the LAN would be perfect. I completely agree with you when you say people coming up in the tournament making suggestions slows things down. I hate when people do that to me. However I have a long rule listing that explains exactly what I intend to do at the LAN so when people come up to me and start bothering me I send them to the rule page. I even made fliers that told the team captains exactly what to do and what the rules are. My last tournament I ran I published a website with the rules on it for people to read and if they had questions or comments I had them make those in the forum and then I analyzed them and made changes if necessary. Here is an example of what I used: I really don't have a problem with the tournament being ran at 6:00am as long as I know it is being ran at that time so I can plan sleep. If you could publish a schedule and stand by it I'm sure a lot more people would be happy. I understand help for these things are hard to find because after all it is volunteer work and hard work. I would be happy to help Anthos or you guys if you need it.

Again I ask that you do not get offended by anything I said here. They are merely suggestions.

Posted by Anthos on 10-30-2002 09:03 PM:

Yeah, about the only thing in that post ( I didn't go to the link) that was different was the actual planned and published scheduling. There were a lot of people at the LAN that hadn't bothered to read the rules. I ended up announcing over the PA for people to read them, because I kept getting so many questions that would have been answered from simply reading the rules. We'll work on getting the schedule ironed out so it can be planned better.


Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

Nobody wins in a quick-draw contest.

Posted by mekk on 10-30-2002 10:53 PM:

Cool, We are looking forward to your next one. Thanks for reading my suggestions and taking some of them.

Posted by Anthos on 10-31-2002 12:45 AM:

I guess I should point out I was talking about your second post, not your first one. We'll definitely take a look at those suggestions more closely.


Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

Nobody wins in a quick-draw contest.

Posted by mekk on 11-01-2002 02:08 PM:

Another problem is that Anthos was essentially the only person running the entire tournament. Quite frankly the tournament is probably too large to be run by a single individual. Sure there were a couple people helping here and there but he carried the majority of the workload for this one.

Anthos, let me know if you want my help for the next MWGL. I would be more than willing to assist. I know how hard it is to throw a tournament off by your self. I've done it.

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