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dbh
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CS1.4 Comments quote:

Well whaddya think? I have a very set opinion on this one... I've been watching it since it's first betas, but I want other unaffected opinions before I go with mine Most of you have probably read the changes list, and have given it a try by now. What are your thoughts?

-dbh

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Old Post 04-24-2002 05:49 PM
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Curve
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quote:

Plainly stated, I really like it.

The jumping does not affect me one bit. I think it adds a nice little play of realism which adds an element of fun. I want someone to stand up right now and jump in one place and then around your house, we'll see how tired you get .

The new features ranging from the little things such as the radar showing more things to the bigger things such as the new spectator modes have made me a very happy camper.

I've been playing CS since day 1, and I think every release just adds more. I'm still a faithful CSer

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Old Post 04-24-2002 10:34 PM
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Anthos
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GUI menus quote:

For any of the other lazy bastards that didn't read the changelist....if you have gui menus disabled in your config, then you'll want to change from:

setinfo "vgui_menus" "0"

to

setinfo "_vgui_menus" "0"

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Old Post 04-25-2002 01:36 AM
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dbh
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quote:

Good call Anthos - gui menus = tehsuq

-dbh

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Old Post 04-25-2002 06:44 AM
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BurnPilot
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quote:

Ok, after officially playing it a bit I can say that the jumping in 1.4 does indeed suck. I agree with limiting the jumping so people can't hop around the whole map, but they took it way too far. They should have either set a stamina meter like in dod or limited it to something like 3 jumps in sequence which would be more realistic than what they did. Also the stealth aspect sucks now as well. I haven't timed it yet but I'm pretty sure walking is hardly faster than moving while ducked (if it is faster then it's not by much). The only good thing about this is that I can hear people coming a mile away now because no one wants to walk because it's so god dang slow. All the other new features are great in my opinion, but they really screwed it up when it comes to these 2 features. This is of course my opinion after playing it for about 2 hours. I will play it a little more just to make sure, but don't think my opinion will change much.

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Old Post 04-25-2002 12:28 PM
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BurnPilot
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quote:

After playing 1.4 more I have decided that I am probably out of cs for good. The way they did jumping and stealth has completely ruined the dynamic of the game in my opinion, plus the fact that there are already hacks out as I watched 2 hackers in the time I played today alone. The ability to dodge is completely gone so if you are outnumbered you are pretty much screwed. You are also screwed if you join in the middle of a round with only a pistol becuase you can't dodge and the the weapons now seem more accurate, I killed 5 people in one frigging round with a mac-10 and I never use that gun. Anyways, unless Valve fixes these issues you will more than likely never see me play cs again, they really screwed up the game.

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Old Post 04-25-2002 03:09 PM
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dbh
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quote:

I am entirely in agreement with Burn at this point... my post to
-=SoF=- :

Yep. All good opinions. The weapons HAVE been changed, though, If you don't notice them, I'm not too surprised. You know me, though. I'm a jumping, Deagle fool. I could take anyone with anyone weapon on with a Deagle, and usually come out ahead. I can't hit crap with the DE anymore-- whether I'm moving, ducking, jump-->duck firing, ANYTHING. As for your distance firing with 7 bullets in the same place, Glue, try again. I think you're mistaken. I sat CLOSE (5 paces), and fired in the same place, and all 7 shots in a diff location. Not one hit the same place.

You all seem to agree on the hs count upgrade. I think this is directly affected by their changes to the weapons. Someone last night said they "n00bified" CS. I think they were right on the money. Anyone can get a headshot, even if their aim sucks. The m4's accuracy wasn't increased, the game just recieved a headshot hitbox upgrade. Sucks bigtime if you ask me.

I think my upset about this entire thing is just the feel of the game. It's not Counter-Strike anymore. I mean, when you patch a game, you should FIX bugs. FIX hacks. Change things like the spectator proxy (which yes, I thought was cool months ago when I saw it. Everyone last night on the servers I played on kept repeating the same thought, "the only cool thing about 1.4 is when you're dead."). DO NOT change the feel of the game! If you're going to do that, release a NEW game. Now this feels like Ghost Recon. If you move and fire, your aim sucks. If you use a pistol, don't duck and fire, your aim sucks (but to me, it still sucks). It feels like every weapon has been dumbed down so that anyone can use it, regardless of how great their aim is. Even the AWP. CS 1.3 took a lot of skill to play (and a lot of BS), but now it feels like the BS has been upped, and it takes even less skill to play. Maybe that's just me, and yes, maybe that's just a couple hours playing the final of 1.4-- but at the moment, I'm very upset about this release, and I know a ton of others who are. I'm sure many of you think I'm REALLY mad about the jumping change-- but in reality, I'm okay with it now (save the practical side of it I mentioned earlier). I knew it was coming months ago in the beta, and got used to it then. Since I've gone back to jumping a lot, but I can get used to not jumping again. I think getting used to what seem to be crappy weapons and crappy headshots will be more difficult.

Anyway, I'm glad some of you really enjoy it. Hopefully after a good week or so of playing it (next week for me, as this one is shot), I'll be in the same position. Have fun guys!

-dbh

I haven't had any time to play since that post... and won't until Sunday/Saturday. I am hoping more time will give me more time to adjust... but I hate the changes they made, and am lost as to why some of them were made (jumping, okay sure... but WHY the way they did? As Burn points out, it's ridiculous!).

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Old Post 04-25-2002 04:19 PM
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Krogue
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quote:

I don't find myself in this position often,but I couldn't disagree with Burn more. I love 1.4.

Now, I am not a CS junkie, nor am I extremely talented at it. So, maybe when you say, you feel they "noobified" it, that may be somewhat true. However, I love the new tenor and feel of the game. No more freakin morons hopping continously, like the Trix Rabbit on PCP. I played a little the last two nights (and over my lunch break at work - shhhhhh !!!), and I didn't see the problems with walking or with ducking.

In addition, I found that people played in a more realistical manner. Instead of everyone running off half-cocked in their own directions at the beginning, people stayed together. This was supposed to be a team-based shooter, remember. People stayed grouped up, and acted as a team. In all the games I played this was the successful method for winning. People who were still trying to be solo-heros were getting wiped out. Real life says you can't out jump or out duck a AK-47 or M-16's spray of bullets. But, up until now, CS said you could.

Also, as pointed out. The new Voice-Over-Net and HLTV Overview modes kick ass. And, yeah it does make it cooler for those of us who die early and often.

I really like 1.4. Does it mean I will play this game more than I did? Probably a little, but not any more than I would have in the long run. So, it may not have been entirely wise of Valve to alienate their core consituency so much. But, it does mean a better gaming experience for me. And, isn't that what really matters in the long run?

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Old Post 04-26-2002 09:08 AM
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BurnPilot
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quote:

The entire problem is that everyone keeps making the arguement that the jumping and the other changes make the game more realistic, while in all truth it doesn't. I'm sorry to point this out to anyone that thinks it's true but I can jump more than once withoug losing speed. Look at the triple jump, the athelete doesn't lose speed hardly at all until the 3rd jump. Now figure that counter terrorism units are in pretty good shape and you will see my point, losing speed after one jump or a drop of 4 feet is stupid. I completely agree with the fact that you shouldn't be able to hop around the level, but they screwed up how they "fixed" it. Along with that they took away a skill, bunny-hopping, that some skilled players took a while to develop. (please note I'm referring to bunny-hoping, where you jump quietly at a decent rate of speed, versus strafe jumping, they are different) Bunny hopping wasn't all that hard and could be learned by anyone who tried in a couple hours, but all the skilled players realized it was the way to go because of the sound factor versus the speed of travel. Now look at the gun accuracy. In 1.3 it wasn't that bad as it took some skill to learn each guns firing characteristics and know how fast to fire it for best accuracy and damage. Now people run around with every gun and just spray at the upper body and get headshots, not exactly realistic. All in all CS was not supposed to be a realistic game, if it was people would die in only a couple shots vs emptying a whole clip into them sometimes. CS was a fast paced team game with real world weapons. Now the firing is no where near accurate in my mind and the game is ungodly slow. Also on the point of the no jumping affecting teamwork, this might be partially true. The problem lies in the fact that if you are playing a serious match and get down a couple guys you have no hope really. I dont' like this as I loved to watch someone pull of some spectacular moves to bring their team back. This is nearly impossible now. Once again CS is not supposed to be realistic, I'll play a Tom Clancy game for that. This is how they destroyed the "dynamic" of the game in my opinion by making it more "noobified" and claiming they are doing it in the name of realism when they are just doing it in the name of money.

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Old Post 04-26-2002 10:01 AM
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Anthos
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quote:

I totally agree. It doesn't even play like CS anymore. It's really damn slow. I see what dbh means about the deagle. It was a heavy favorite of mine as well, now it's worth about it's weight in lead. It seems to do less damage now, plus it seems slower on the quick pistol switch than other pistols. I don't think anyone ever played CS for the "realism". If you say you do/did, you're full of crap. CS is nowhere near realistic. Like Burn said, you don't take 10 bullets and keep running around like you weren't hurt at all. CS was a fast paced, skill based game. Now it's been slowed down and tweaked to reward spray-n-pray tactics. Please explain why during practice with my clan (skilled team with organized strategies) I can go like 30-5, then playing against a server full of n00bs, I get killed by headshot after headshot. The jumping, as Burn said, was totally over done. Yeah, I'm all for making it more "realistic", but when I run and jump a few feet in the air, I don't come to a screeching halt when I land....I keep jumping. Burn mentioned triple jump, but take a look at hurdles, as well. Not quite jumping, exactly, but more to my point of how they keep moving forward after they come back down to the ground. Go ahead, go run and jump and keep running when you land. See how much you slow down. No, clumsiness does not count. Personally, I loved the fact that you could have no money and use a pistol to get a few kills, pick up someones gun and win the round. Now, if you've got only a pistol, you're pretty much screwed. Sure, you might get one kill, but if there's more than one person there, it's not gonna do you much good. I think they are trying to appeal more and more to getting new players into the game, rather then making the game better. It's all about the money to them. I think the term "n00bified" is the perfect description to what they've done to what used to be an awesome game.

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Old Post 04-26-2002 10:16 AM
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Hollywood
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Talking so.... quote:

so since CS is lame now, like i said it was a long time ago, does this mean you guys are switching to Q3 now?!

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Old Post 04-26-2002 10:28 AM
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Anthos
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Screenshot of the Day at csnation. quote:


Since so many are leaving Counter-Strike, this SAS would like to give a wave good-bye. thanks, Bi0|-|aZarD.

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Old Post 04-26-2002 01:01 PM
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BurnPilot
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quote:

Actually comparing jumping and physical movement in track is perfect for any game, especially cs. In fact, bunny hopping is indeed a possibility, let me explain. During my 4 years of running track we had an exercise every year where we would attempt to "bound" around the entire track to increase endurance and explosion. For those who haven't heard of bounding what it basically is is a real life bunny hop. It is slower than running and faster than a walk, plus you make no where near the noise you would when running. Sure doing it around the entire track took some strength an no one hardly ever made it more than 300 meters without having to stop but it is possible, think at the end of my junior year I made it almost the full track with only a half second stop half way though. Anyway, it's really hard to describe bounding, but describing it as a real life bunny-hop is the best way. I guess you could describe it as doing a lay-up style(with a little more emphasis on height) jump then landing on the opposite foot only to jump right back off that foot the same way. I'm not sure the distance runners did it much but they probably did it a couple times so Anthos should be able to second me on this.

To answer Wingfoot, no, no q3 for me I will probably go Jedi Knight 2 then UT 2003 if anything.

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Old Post 04-26-2002 01:30 PM
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Curve
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quote:

quote:
Originally posted by BurnPilot
Actually comparing jumping and physical movement in track is perfect for any game, especially cs. In fact, bunny hopping is indeed a possibility, let me explain. During my 4 years of running track we had an exercise every year where we would attempt to "bound" around the entire track to increase endurance and explosion.


Counter-Strike can't be compared to track running. The CTs aren't running in a circle with short shorts on. Athough your argument has some merit, try throwing on a CT outfit with Kevlar and carrying a weapon then bound.

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Old Post 04-26-2002 02:15 PM
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Curve
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quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Anthos
I don't think anyone ever played CS for the "realism". If you say you do/did, you're full of crap. CS is nowhere near realistic.


I agree with you to an extent. Although CS wasn't nearly as realistic as say Rainbow Six was, it still had real elements to it. This new jumping thing is a new real element. It's just somethign to adapt to, and I'm adapting rather fine as I never did much bunny hopping other then to get to a place faster. I had to stop that and so be it. Jumping while you are shooting is just plain stupid unless it's DM type games like quake and there is no sense of realism at all . And no Jingy, I'm not full of crap.

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Old Post 04-26-2002 02:21 PM
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